Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: crapypoo1 on July 13, 2011, 02:32 am
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Hey guys,
I'm copying and pasting this from somewhere else, but it's a very good resource if you're interested in taking care of yourself...
If you're not interested or don't care about this stuff, then move along, but don't post a bunch of bullshit suggesting people should abuse themselves or take a higher dose than they should because of YOUR experiences. Thanks Everyone!
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The Effects of Ecstasy
Think of your brain as the engine of a car. Ecstasy makes you floor the gas pedal and make the car go faster than normal. This is fun. But in driving faster, you use up gas faster as well. When the drug wears off, you obviously have less gas. With less gas, you can't drive as fast as you normally do. Therefore you operate less efficiently. This is what Ecstacy does--it uses up all the gas (called serotonin) in your brain, which leaves your brain exhausted and unable to carry out other functions that it uses serotonin for. Low levels of serotonin often affect eating patterns, sleeping patterns, short term memory, and induce symptoms of depression.
Preloading
The concept behind preloading is to add gas to the tank that MDMA is going to use up, put the car in economy mode so it uses gas more efficiently, and to prevent damage to the engine if its driven too hard, especially if there's no gas in the tank. The following supplements safeguard against the drug's negative side-effects while increasing the enjoyment of the positive ones. All are perfectly legal, and can be found in just about any health food store.
Protection
The following three elements are the most protective to a preloading regimen:
1] 5-HTP - 200-400mg
5-hydroxytrytophan is the direct precursor of serotonin in the body. It enhances the loved-up, empathic feelings and cleans up the comedown. It counteracts negative side effects like depression by putting more gas in the tank and ensuring that you don't run out, and also reduces the chances of oxidized dopamine radicals, which leads to neurotoxicity, which leads to brain damage.
2] Vitamin C - 1000mg+
Vitamin C is a potent antioxidant. It is believed that MDMA is neurotoxic due to oxidized free radicals. As such Vitamin C counteracts these free radicals and helps to minimize damage incurred. It is also water soluble and so protective you really can't go wrong going high.
3] Magnesium - 500-1000mg
One of Magnesium's major roles in the body is in muscle relaxation. It is the antagonist [opposite] of calcium, which helps to induce muscle contraction. The jaw clenching observed on MDMA can be minimized through magnesium supplementation. Added magnesium can also minimize cramping due to dehydration.
Enhancement
The following elements are optional because they enhance the experience rather than protect you from anything specific:
1] L-Tyrosine - 500-1500mg
Think of dopamine as engine oil. When the car runs out of gas (serotonin), it starts using up engine oil in its place, which is very hard on the engine, and can lead to permanent damage. L-Tyrosine is to dopamine what 5-HTP is to serotonin. It is its precursor. Dopamine provides the rushy, body buzz, speedy effects. Increasing L-tyrosine levels enhances these sensations.
2] DLPA - 500-1500mg
DLPA amongst other functions, helps to prolong the duration of action of pleasure inducing neurochemicals.
3] L-Glutamine - 2-5 grams
L-Glutamine is a precursor to neurotransmitters in the brain. It also imparts a protective effect on the brain but not as heavily as 5-HTP or Vitamin C.
Usage
It is preferable to preload on a relatively empty stomach, 1-1.5 hours prior to rolling. Preferably take the supplements with a sugary juice to help the amino acids cross the blood brain barrier. It should be noted that preloading can upset some people's stomachs or cause diarrhea due to the acidity of the stomach. In which case, some Immodium can counteract the diarrhea and does not interfere with a roll, and Tums or any calcium carbonate based antacid can reduce the acidity of the stomach and counteract the feelings of sickness. Remember to experiment and take these things slowly as the sheer volume of pills ingested can upset the stomach. It may seem expensive to buy all these things but to protect your brain against neurotoxic effects and reduce other negative side effects is well worth it.
Postloading
The concept behind postloading is to to fill up the tank after a long, fast ride. You restore the elements depleted by MDMA, and in doing so, bypass negative side effects and clean up your comedown while restoring normal function. The only elements required in a postloading regimen are the protective ones. The following supplements safeguard against the drug's negative side-effects the best.
Protection
1] 5-HTP - 200-400mg
2] Vitamin C - 1000mg+
3] Magnesium - 500-1000mg
Usage
5-HTP, Vitamin C, Magnesium are used for reasons also explained in the preloading regimen. A multivitamin is beneficial to help replace spent micronutrients. Water is of course beneficial. You will know if you are bypassing the negative side effects of serotonin depletion if you can sleep soundly after rolling, and do not experience significant post-MDMA depression or disturbances in verbal processing, short term memory and eating patterns.
Natural sources of trytophan (the precursor to 5-hydroxtrytophan, two steps away from serotonin) include bananas and turkey meat. Turkey's high level of trytophan is the reason why most people feel sleepy after Thanksgiving/Christmas dinners--the high concentration of trytophan converts to serotonin in the bloodstream. Because of serotonin's relationship to the regulation of sleep, fatigue is induced.
This regimen is merely a guideline that has been found to work for many. It should also be noted that changing the ratios of elements can provide different effects. For instance, excessive 5-HTP can mellow out a roll. Not make it mashy, but reduce the speediness of the pill.
Health
120mg of MDMA (about 1-2 caps) is generally all that is needed to completely deplete all your serotonin. Taking more will not increase the feelings, nor prolong them. Although the above supplements help, the best way to restore your serotonin (fill up the tank) is abstinence. Your brain typically takes about two weeks to recover from Ecstacy. And finally, do not combine E with monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) drugs. Monoamine oxidase is the enzyme that helps to eventually slow down the effects of MDMA, without it, your body is a speeding car without any breaks--it has no way of controlling itself. And remember to have fun, be safe, and drink lots of water.
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Nice post. the Vitamin C/Magnesium stack can also be used pre and post for a lot of other stimulants too.
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These are the types of posts that I'm talking about.. . Great post!
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thanks for sharing that. What else will taking 5 HTP and Vitamin C help? lsd?
also, i've taken the 200mg HTP pills and i get really bad headaches from it. I now take the 50mg pill with no headaches. would taking 50mg pills a couple times a day for a couple weeks help w/ the roll?
I just got a gram of some very fine mdma in, but now after reading this i will just hold on to it, i need my brain during that massive recovery time(2 weeks)until i find a steady job.
also, is there a difference in the come down with clean mdma vs a dirty x pill?
I've done X before and the next day is terrifying, and the loss of small simple words for days after is frightening.
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Nice post. the Vitamin C/Magnesium stack can also be used pre and post for a lot of other stimulants too.
Yes all Stimulants, including Phenethylamines.
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thanks for sharing that. What else will taking 5 HTP and Vitamin C help? lsd?
also, i've taken the 200mg HTP pills and i get really bad headaches from it. I now take the 50mg pill with no headaches. would taking 50mg pills a couple times a day for a couple weeks help w/ the roll?
I just got a gram of some very fine mdma in, but now after reading this i will just hold on to it, i need my brain during that massive recovery time(2 weeks)until i find a steady job.
also, is there a difference in the come down with clean mdma vs a dirty x pill?
I've done X before and the next day is terrifying, and the loss of small simple words for days after is frightening.
If you have good MDMA, you dont use MDMA regularly, and you're relatively healthy, the come down and next day effects will most likely be minimal. With good stuff, you can party hard saturday, enjoy your sunday and work monday without issue...
Subsequently, if you allow yourself to go into 'self reflection mode' while you're high, you might figure out some shit that just might maybe help you in your job search... weirder things have happened.
Happy rolling!
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sources for this?
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All this stuff can be found in any pharmacy section of stores...Walmart, Grocery Stores and well general Pharmacies OTC. 5HTP is a little expensive but if you do MDMA on a regular basis it's very helpful.
I actually did some MDMA the other night and it was so good I forgot to redose magnesium mid experience, but took some when I realized I was clenching and it all calmed back down.
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Nomad-
Is it bad etiquette for me to ask you who's MDMA you thought was awesome? Could you rank the SR Mdma products you have tried and who's selling them?
So far I've Tried Mitanox and 3Janes stuff... both were excellent, but Mitanox's stuff was clearly superior. At least for me....
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^^could you post a review of them?? got some from mitanox and thinking how i should dose it also will be purchasing from 3jane in the future :)
thanks nomad
but i wanted to know if crapypoo1 could link me to some research done on the topic supporting those claims?
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Nomad-
Is it bad etiquette for me to ask you who's MDMA you thought was awesome? Could you rank the SR Mdma products you have tried and who's selling them?
So far I've Tried Mitanox and 3Janes stuff... both were excellent, but Mitanox's stuff was clearly superior. At least for me....
It's not bad etiquette, if someone has already mentioned that they have tried both suppliers. I can tell you that Nomad was out of control on the SILC chat over the weekend and that was due to Mitanox. :)
Mitanox maybe taking a break from the game pretty soon but has assured his regular customers that he has made arrangements to keep the good times going. :)
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So far I've Tried Mitanox and 3Janes stuff... both were excellent, but Mitanox's stuff was clearly superior. At least for me....
.....for me as well. :D
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OK here's my contribution to this discussion, based on my own personal experiences. I've (ab)used E over a hundred times in the last 10 years, so this would probably be different for new users.
Preloading with 5HTP/tryptophan too closely will dampen the roll - I find that pre-loading too close to "launch time" mellows the roll, by a lot. Sometimes this is not a good thing, as I end up requiring more milligrams of molly to hit the sweet spot. These days I take tryptophan regularly (200mg), but I stop taking it 24 hours prior to rolling. After the roll I take it and it helps making the the post-roll depression less steep. I've heard that serotonin is very expensive for the body to make, and it takes a few days to convert to from 5-HTP, so pre-loading even 24 hours before the roll is not likely to affect the amount of available serotonin to be released at roll time.
Smoke/vape weed to enhance the roll and to protect from nerve damage - I don't usually roll unless I also have some good weed around, at least a few hits worth. It helps me keep a smoother trip, and the comedown is also much gentler. On good E, every time I take a hit off the pipe/vape, I "come up" again a little bit, thus coming down more gradual. I've also read that THC may help prevent nerve damage from doing MDMA: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2824821/pdf/pone.0009143.pdf
SSRI will also dampen the roll, but it helps post-roll a lot - I've taken Effexor or Buproprion (Wellbutrin) prior to dropping, and the roll is definitely more muted. So I stop taking SSRI two or three days before. Taking it shortly after the roll, however, results in no "crash" and better mood in the days after. I'm guessing this has something to do with serotonin re-uptake inhibition of these class of drugs.
Other than that, I follow the regimen as outlined in the original post. Obviously, drugs are bad for your system so if you want to be 100% safe/protected, just abstain. Anyways, that's my experience. Your mileage may vary.
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I would just like to point out that Wellbutrin (bupropion) is not an SSRI. I know many people, inlcluding myself who have rolled while on a regular Wellbutrin treatment and have experienced no change in effects. This is what I would expect, since Wellbutrin is not a traditional SSRI or MAOI like Paxil or Prozac or other antidepressants, but YMMV and don't be afraid to ask your doctor about it.
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Hi, a slight off topic.
I have been searching info for couple of days, but found very little. The question that is bothering me is neurotoxisity/addiction of bk-mdma (methylone/m1). I Use mdma less that 5 times/year, but for the last month or so i have grew to like bk-mdma;). I use extremely small doses of it (think it's less that 80mg per night, and most of the times it's even less, closer to 20/40 mg). I use it mainly to sober-up and go through the evening (i get drunk pretty fast these days;).
I use it only friday/saturday (but most of the time only once per week).
The addiction part is easy - as far as my 'research' (that is google;) showed - no cases of addiction were documented ( not surprisingly if it's a structural analogue of mdma - that is to be expected). But the part on neurotoxisity is a bit weak. Wiki sez, that "Until now, no research has been conducted on the toxicity of methylone, so nothing is known about the harmfulness of this new drug." and "ately 3x lower affinity for the serotonin transporter, while its affinity for the norepinephrine and dopamine transporters is similar.[3][10] Notably, methylone's affinity for the vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2) is about 13x lower than that of MDMA" So.. correct me if I'm wrong (and I very well can be;) this data suggest, that it should be even less hazardous than mdma (or such conclusion could not be made from given data?). Or is it just wishfull thinking?=)
Thanks for any comments (from experience or from other sources)...
p.s. i have read through most of the scientific papers on erowid - the worst part is that most of them do not try to study the effects, the toxicity levels, or anything like that - no, the most complete studies are 'how to detect this in urine'. Yes - because main goal of the governments is not to inform people, but to detect and fine them! yay for this awesome policy that will surely save lives... :(
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I was just posting this in the other guys thread asking about taking E with SSRI. I've read that taking one the next day was supposed to help your brain replenish your serotonin supply. I've seen SSRI's for sale here on the road, guess maybe that's why lol.
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I was just posting this in the other guys thread asking about taking E with SSRI. I've read that taking one the next day was supposed to help your brain replenish your serotonin supply. I've seen SSRI's for sale here on the road, guess maybe that's why lol.
I take a SSRI before bed and wake up feeling quite well, no hangover, but that's pretty much just with the straight MDMA. SSRI's will help with the press pills though too. :D
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I have a nootropic supplement blend (MindFood) for sale that protects against neurotoxicity induced by MDMA and similar drugs. It contains many of the substances mentioned here, plus others that nonspecifically promote optimal brain function and (in some cases) have been found to specifically inhibit MDMA-like toxicity. If you want specific references let me know.
Subjectively, taking one or two of these before, during, or after your roll(s) will noticably prevent the 'brain-drain' one may otherwise experience. After 3 days at Camp Bisco my body was done but my brain was at least as sharp as when I got there.
Sorry for the self promotion, felt it was relevant to the topic
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Hi,
First post so greetings all,
thought I could contribute to this one. I have been an MDMA user since the early nineties as well as being an ex-member of a few HR sites. So, I have been fortunate to pick up some knowledge and experience along the way, but it is an ongoing journey.
The OP's article was originally written by Pinger on the bluelight.ru site around 2000. It may well be still there in the archive or exist on the main board. The site has undergone a lot of upgrades, migrations etc over the years; similarly the information contained within the original article has been revised many times as new information comes to light.
I can't tell you what version the one quoted above refers to (I only read the forst few paras because I'm lazy :o), so my point would be: either check out the bluelight site or do some other investigation elsewhere. Never take anything as 'gospel', not just because of contradictory claims but also because information changes as research is published.
And if you do decide on a loading regime then do things in moderation to begin with, we're all different physiologies so find your own limits from the safe direction.
Personally, I went through a stage of being very thorough with pre and post loading but don't these days. The best pre-load is a sufficent period of time between doses - at my age months rather than weeks ;)
I found that the number of supplements was adding to nausea and that the whole process took some of the joy and spontaneity out of the experience.
Finally, with regard to taking SSRIs as a post load for neuro-toxity protection, be careful because the window of opportunity for taking an SSRI has been amended over the years; to the best of my knowledge it is now between 8 and 12 hours after the last mdma dose. Taking an SSRI too early can lead to serotonin syndrome (not pleasant).
Peace
MB
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@Tryptamine - do you still have those nootropics. I'm really interested in them but can't find a site to ship to australia.
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@Tryptamine - do you still have those nootropics. I'm really interested in them but can't find a site to ship to australia.
Tryptamine's SR profile page: http://ianxz6zefk72ulzz.onion/index.php/silkroad/user/5339
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I'm temporarily out of MindFoods, I'm going to have more within the next week. I still have some ChillPills though, you could use them for 'post-loading', although I haven't personally tested them for that purpose.
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Hello everyone ^^
I am a beginner here, i didn't want to open a new post as i found this one.
It will be the first time i will take MDMA so i need some advices. Would a "fruit salad" work in this case? I could would put orange in it, which has Vitamine C for example, lol?
I am asking this because i am not sure if i can go to the pharmacy and tell them "give me some pills of 5-HTP-5-hydroxytrytophan". It would sound strange don't you think? I am from Brasil, i don't know if they sell it without medical subscription (i guess not).
The MDMA pills i ordered seem to be strong, they are considered MDMA high, they are called "Q-Dance Pills". I ordered from a nice guy in Holland (directly from SilkRoad website). It says it contains from 160mg to 185mg of MDMA, so i think it is gonna hit me hard!
Would it work ingesting food rich in Vitamine C and magnesium hours earlier before taking MDMA? I don't know what to do with 5-HTP as it seems it seems to be hard to find in nature.
Orange: Natural Vitamine C source
Avocado: Natural Magnesium source
Could it work? Or it is a waste of time...
Thanks,
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I am asking this because i am not sure if i can go to the pharmacy and tell them "give me some pills of 5-HTP-5-hydroxytrytophan". It would sound strange don't you think? I am from Brasil, i don't know if they sell it without medical subscription (i guess not).
Hi yellowsin,
h5tp is not a controlled substance, its widely available at least in N america and europe as an over the counter supplement. Its mostly found at health food stores or vitamin stores not pharmacies. Many people use it to aid sleep/stress and you should not attract attention buying it.
I am not a dietician but I assume eating some foods with the recommended minerals would help if you gave them time to digest.. perhaps 3-4 hours before ingestion.
Also always a hot topic but I find grapefruit or its juice 30m prior to ingestion makes me feel a stronger peak, it may be anecdotal or placebo, but I have read it will slightly increase potency of your dose due to slightly slowed elimination of the active molecules through the liver. Some people argue this could increase danger of negative side effects so always dose on the safe side :)
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Hi,
First post so greetings all,
thought I could contribute to this one. I have been an MDMA user since the early nineties as well as being an ex-member of a few HR sites. So, I have been fortunate to pick up some knowledge and experience along the way, but it is an ongoing journey.
The OP's article was originally written by Pinger on the bluelight.ru site around 2000. It may well be still there in the archive or exist on the main board. The site has undergone a lot of upgrades, migrations etc over the years; similarly the information contained within the original article has been revised many times as new information comes to light.
I can't tell you what version the one quoted above refers to (I only read the forst few paras because I'm lazy :o), so my point would be: either check out the bluelight site or do some other investigation elsewhere. Never take anything as 'gospel', not just because of contradictory claims but also because information changes as research is published.
And if you do decide on a loading regime then do things in moderation to begin with, we're all different physiologies so find your own limits from the safe direction.
Personally, I went through a stage of being very thorough with pre and post loading but don't these days. The best pre-load is a sufficent period of time between doses - at my age months rather than weeks ;)
I found that the number of supplements was adding to nausea and that the whole process took some of the joy and spontaneity out of the experience.
Finally, with regard to taking SSRIs as a post load for neuro-toxity protection, be careful because the window of opportunity for taking an SSRI has been amended over the years; to the best of my knowledge it is now between 8 and 12 hours after the last mdma dose. Taking an SSRI too early can lead to serotonin syndrome (not pleasant).
Peace
MB
+1. i was actually a mod (diff sn obvi) back when it was still .nu. have taken way too many pills in the past. actively followed pre/post regimens and just came to the conclusion over the years that i didn't notice any discernible difference between doing it and not. then again, it's generally not that rough on me to begin with. i don't clench, eyes don't bug out, can sleep pretty easily etc. honestly the rare occasions i do drop anymore i just stick to powder/crystal and that's made more of a difference than anything.
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Yeh thanks, i think i will just stick with the fruits that's it lol... ::) will let it happen, if i feel no good the other day i will try something else next time. These things must be very complex...i assume it will depend on many factors, genetics, if you are a healthy person, what you have been eating, actual levels of serotonin, etc right?
Be good, thanks for the suppport ;D
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Preload and during roll magnsium loading defintely helped my bruxism (jaw clench) and nystagmus (eye wiggles) during the dying days of good MDMA in AU
-although eye wiggles could be pretty fun ;)
Post-load 5-Htp definitely helped survive 'Terrible Tuesday' back in the real word.
Anyone in AU looking for 5-Htp or L-Tyrosine look at healthpost in NZ, our friends 'across the ditch' can help.
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I'm temporarily out of MindFoods, I'm going to have more within the next week. I still have some ChillPills though, you could use them for 'post-loading', although I haven't personally tested them for that purpose.
I now have new and improved MindFood in stock, with sulbutiamine (neuro-tropic form of thiamine, B1) and rhodiola rosea extract.
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vitamin water (essential mix) all the way
i like going for a nice jog the day after, later in the afternoon, do about 3-4-5 miles depending on things. just a jog, nothing hard, but it has to be done; the feeling that you're making yourself do it is what counts. get them dopamine receptors kicking a bit. then a good meal and out to the bar to have a few beers with the crew from the night before, and if you happen to have a broad at the time, a lil bang sesh before bed ;D. that night's sleep is god-like.
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What about Piracetam? Is it good pre or post?
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Have you felt dizziness a few days after taking MDMA?
I've had a total of 1g (I believe) Friday and Saturday nights. The first night was crazy good, but the second night I didn't quite feel the nice effects of MDMA (probably because I had no serotonin left).
Today is Wednesday and I've been feeling funny since Monday. It's not depression, but some weird dizziness. I can walk fine and everything. It's like some subtle electrical jolts in my brain, kind of funny.
No pain at all.
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What about Piracetam? Is it good pre or post?
I wouldn't be surprised; either way, it'd probably potentiate the subjective effects.
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I also felt that way after a crazy night when I had taken too much of what, supposedly was Mdma (but I'm not sure). I vomited (can't remember that) and blackened out and in the morning I felt like you describe (subtle electrical jolts in my brain). Also hard to concentrate. Felt like there was some subtle 'filter' delay between the brain and the and senses and thoughts. Took me 2-3 weeks to be 100% restored.
If you have some Piracetam, you could try that. I tried that after some time, but I'm not sure if it helped or not.
I hope you'll be alright soon.
Have you felt dizziness a few days after taking MDMA?
I've had a total of 1g (I believe) Friday and Saturday nights. The first night was crazy good, but the second night I didn't quite feel the nice effects of MDMA (probably because I had no serotonin left).
Today is Wednesday and I've been feeling funny since Monday. It's not depression, but some weird dizziness. I can walk fine and everything. It's like some subtle electrical jolts in my brain, kind of funny.
No pain at all.
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This post needs evidence instead of ridiculous analogies. Anyone with respect for science will cringe while reading this.
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This post needs evidence instead of ridiculous analogies. Anyone with respect for science will cringe while reading this.
Call it what you will. Shit works. 5-HTP has significantly amplified the high for at least one friend of mine and helped with the comedown, when taken before and after with some magnesium during. I usually take a B-vitamin complex with 300mg of Vitamin C in it before hand and then some magnesium when I feel the roll starting. Then more vit. C and a one-a-day in the morning.
tl;dr vitamins saved my life. Or at least made this tuesday a hell of a lot better than last tuesday. Happy and energetic rather than fucking suicidal for no reason other than chemical imbalance.
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Piracetam + mdma is amazing ;D
I also usually load up on some magnesium and alpha lipoic acid, and I also drink plenty of orange/pomegranate/etc juices.
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I have never proloaded or postloaded. I've never really seen the point in it, especially since I never feel bad the next day. Usually after taking MDMA I feel amazingly relaxed and happy the next few days. Is it really so common to eat a crapload of vitamins before/after?
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vitamin water (essential mix) all the way
i like going for a nice jog the day after, later in the afternoon, do about 3-4-5 miles depending on things. just a jog, nothing hard, but it has to be done; the feeling that you're making yourself do it is what counts. get them dopamine receptors kicking a bit. then a good meal and out to the bar to have a few beers with the crew from the night before, and if you happen to have a broad at the time, a lil bang sesh before bed ;D. that night's sleep is god-like.
I have to agree about the exercising. I tried it and it's good. Gets the body back up to speed.
I also overdid it one time, (which was easy because i was feeling very good during exercise). It was a bit too much and the exhaustion hit me hard for a couple of hours.
So yes: *do* exercise the day after, but not too much.
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CandyShop here loves to give advice
Don't take 5-htp instead take l-l tryptophan
Recent studies have shown that in your stomach 5-htp changes too fast in to serotonin,
which will result it to end up in your liver rather than your brain
And this will damage your liver!
Stay healthy,
CandyShop
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CandyShop here loves to give advice
Don't take 5-htp instead take l-l tryptophan
Recent studies have shown that in your stomach 5-htp changes too fast in to serotonin,
which will result it to end up in your liver rather than your brain
And this will damage your liver!
Stay healthy,
CandyShop
So here's my first meaningful post. I hope this is backed up by enough science to merit some consideration:
Candy is exactly right. Most of the 5-htp will be metabolized into serotonin in the periphery of your body, long before it is able to reach the brain. Not only this, but only a small fraction of serotonin in the blood stream will cross the blood brain barrier (less than 2%). What's more, excessive serotonin in the blood can cause hypertension, which probably isn't good for someone who's just taken an MD* class drug. I would stay away from post-loading with this -- if anything, you should be trying to reduce serotonin in the bloodstream by taking melatonin.
When your brain depletes itself of serotonin (such as after taking an MD*), it is unable to convert that serotonin into melatonin, which is necessary for the maintenance of a healthy sleep cycle, and also is a powerful antioxidant. I promise that anyone who post-loads with melatonin instead of 5-htp will be doing their body much more good. The benefits of 5-htp will be largely from the B6 that is often included in such supplements. You're better off taking a B-complex vitamin the morning after, and taking the melatonin as the come down hits.
And the main problem is that MD* affects the other major neurotransmitter systems (dopamine and norepinephrine). It would be silly to try an take enough supplements to affect all of these systems. L-Tyrosine, L-Taurine, Beta-Phenylethylamine, Phenylalanine, Glutamine... The list would be enormous.
Finally, remember that no anti-oxidant supplement can replace the ingestion of natural anti-oxidant rich foods such as certain fruits and nuts. I know you're never hungry on these drugs, but forcing down the occasional piece of fruit throughout your night can greatly increase the protective anti-oxidants available in your body, and oxidation is the main long-term danger of any MD* drug. The vast majority of the anti-oxidants in these foods will be absorbed and put to use, in stark contrast to the limited bio-availability of many supplements taken in pill form.
Lesson: Trust nature to provide as much as possible. Be healthy, before and after you enjoy your special nights, and it will take far less of a toll in your system.